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tv   Meet the Press  NBC  May 1, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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this sunday is donald trump about to wrap up the republican nomination? >> i consider myself the presumptive nominee. >> ted cruz is making a last stand in indiana. he belittles trump. >> the only thing he knows how to do, yells or screams or curses or insults. >> will cruz endorse trump if he loses on tuesday? >> why won't you answer that question straight forward, black and white. >> let me finish the point i'm making. >> my lively interview with ted cruz. plus, it's been exactly five years since the raid that killed osama bin laden. >> the united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden, the lead every of al qaeda. my exclusive sitdown with john brennan on the biggest threats today, the war with isis and
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whether we're safer now than we were five years ago. finally, president obama says good-bye for the last time to washington on the night that washington loves to love itself. the white house correspondents dinner. >> with that i just have two more words to say, obama out. and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning, thomas friedman and kristin welker and historian doris kaernz goodwin. >> good sunday morning. you want to appreciate how dominant donald trump's candidacy has become, trump didn't just won all five states on tuesday, all of pennsylvania's 67 counties and all 23 in maryland and all eight
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in connecticut and five in rhode island and all three in delaware. in other words, each and every one of the 106 counties that voted last tuesday and won all but two by double digits. trump now needs just 47% of the remaining delegates to go to cleveland with the magic number of 1237. ted cruz and john kasich are mathematically eliminated. they need each 100% of delegates. journalists have gone to the cliche handbook, going for a hail mary and thrown aspaghetti against the wall. cruz's choice of carly fiorina produced very little buzz and there's this. with cruz counting on tuesday's primary in indiana to stop trump. our latest poll has trump leading ted cruz by a whopping 15 points. close to 50%.
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49-34 john kasich in third at 13%. bernie sanders is in better shape in indiana against hillary clinton than ted cruz is. sanders only trails clinton by four points in indiana, 50-46. with all of that in mind i began my conversation with senator ted cruz on friday and began by asking him why john cakasich ha received more republican votes than cruz has since he won wisconsin. >> what we've been seeing happening is republicans uniting behind our campaign. you're focusing on the last week, the last week donald trump won the home state of new york and adjoining states in the northeast and media reacted with heart palpitations what a wonderful decisive moment it was for donald. in the three weeks preceded new york, utah, north coat at a,
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wisconsin and why oyominwyoming five states in a row. i won more republican votes in wisconsin than donald trump did in new york. although that somehow hasn't been reported an awful lot. >> if you don't win indiana, do you get out of the race? >> indiana is an important state. we're competing hard and barn storming the state. on a bus tour, heidi and i and the girls and carly. indiana has a chance to choose. do we want to support a campaign based on yelling and screaming and cursing and insults, or do we want to unify behind a positive optimistic conservative looking campaign based on real policy solutions to the -- >> if indiana rejects that, rejects that argument, are they not? >> i don't believe so. i think the support we're seeing is surging. there's a reason governor mike pence offered his support. he's hearing from hoosiers across the state that don't want
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a campaign that is based on yelling and bullying -- >> i want to go to your struggles in uniting the party around you. in fact, this is what your now running mate -- >> tell me what you really think. >> i'm asking about your struggles getting the party to rally around you. here's your running mate, what your running mate said about you when he was running for president. take a listen. >> there's no honor in charging a hill that you know you can't take only casualties, although ted cruz maybe got name recognition and money along the way. i find it odd that senator ted cruz did not renounce his dual canadian citizenship until 2014 when it became clear he was running for president. ted cruz is just like any other politician. he says one thing in manhattan and another thing in iowa and says whatever he needs to say to get elected then he'll do as he pleases. >> which carly fiorina should we believe? >> when you have a competitive primary, people play hard and vigorous and she was competing and trying to win. that's what people do in the
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course of a primary. you know, i'll tell you how the choice of carly came about. it was a little over seven weeks ago she publicly endorsed me and did that after coming to the conclusion. voted for me first in virginia, i was the strongest candidate. after she endorsed she went on the road with me. heidi and i spent a lot of time with carly, campaigning getting to know each other firsthand. one of the reasons we did a long and extensive search to narrow down the right vp nominee is perhaps the most serious and solemn decision a presidential candidate makes, but it ended up being a very easy choice because i wanted someone who had the knowledge to do the job to be president and had the judgment to do the job and character to do the job. carly's story is extraordinary. she stands up to donald trump and hillary clinton and bullying is not a sign of strength. it's a sign of weakness and insecurity and carly has shattered glass ceilings her entire life.
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i'm incredibly proud to be running on a ticket with carly. >> donald trump accused hillary clinton of playing a gender card and saying that she wouldn't be anywhere, she would only be at 5% if they were a man instead of a woman. who do you make of that comment? >> it's typical donald trump. the only thing he knows how to do in any given circumstance, he yells and screams or curses and insults. hillary is a very smart committed liberal. her policies are profoundly wrong but donald can't criticize her policies. you know why? because he supports them. donald and hillary, flip sides of the same coin. they both gotten rich exploiting washington, exploiting government power. donald can't criticize hillary clinton on planned parenthood because they both say it's terrific and keep taxpayer funding. >> i have to ask about -- you've heard them before, the john boehner comments.
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hear they are and i'll get you to react. >> how about ted cruz. >> lucifer in the flesh. i have democrat friends and i have republican friends and get along with almost everybody. but i have never worked with a more miserable son of a bsh in my life. >> you cannot see to get the party to rally around you, they are accepting the premise that trump is going to be the nominee. isn't it because you have bad relationships with the john boehners and mitch mcconnells of the world? you're not going to win this nomination without their help, are you not? >> well, i actually thing these remarks illustrate what this race is all about. i don't know john boehner. the two of us haven't said 50 years words to each other -- >> why? how have you not had any interaction with the speaker of the house, leading republican senator? >> chuck, it's actually a good illustration, during the
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government shutdown i reached out and offered for mike lee and me to come over and sit down with the speaker and majority leader and boehner said no interest, no value, not willing to talk to you. i don't know him at all. what was interesting about boehner's comments is he praised hillary clinton, thinks she's terrific and praised donald trump, he's his friend and golfing buddy. donald trump and hillary clinton and john boehner are all -- they are the washington cartel. tgs the corruption of washington. and this is wherewithal respect a lot of folks in the media don't understand. that's what people are ticked off at, donald pretending he's an outsider. they are the ultimate washington insiders and they have been enmeshed in the corruption. if you want a presidential candidate like john boehner, donald trump is candidate.
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i thought boehner was auditioning to be the vp candidate. >> if he's the nominee, i take you you can't support him any more, can you? >> i believe if the republican party nominates donald trump we'll lose to hillary. when we offer democrat light, donald trump and hillary clinton on the ballot, support the same social policy and same economic policy. in fact, both donald and hill y hillary supports -- >> are you going to support him? i understand what you believe in the republican party. are you -- can you support him? can you tell your delegates? >> what i'm going to do -- >> and support donald trump? >> you may not -- >> i recognize that many in the media would love for me to surrender to donald trump -- >> not about the media -- it's about the numbers. it's about the numbers. he may win. republican voters are the ones rejecting you. this is not a media conspiracy, senator. >> well, actually, with all due
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respect the media has given $2 billion of free advertising to donald -- let me ask you a question, for example, how much money did the networks make on every one of the republican debates? >> i have no idea because -- we didn't have a republican debate. >> but you know what's interesting, it's been 49 days since we've had a republican debate. the democrats have had a debate and hillary clinton and beern knee sanders willing to debate. donald can't answer questions about his foreign policy and can't answer questions how you bring jobs -- >> why knltd you answer the question whether you can support donald trump or not? you can't answer that question. why won't you answer that question, straight forward, black and white? >> chuck, let me finish this point i'm making. even though the media stands to make millions of dollars off the debate, you hear radio silence from the media about no debates. they are giving up millions of dollars and the reason is, your network's executives are partisan democrats. why doesn't every tv station -- >> you don't get to just say
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that, it's not true but go ahead. you just throw -- you're broad brushing and this is what people hate about the media and politics, broad brushes, right? >> the simle reality is, the media almost entirely are liberal partisan democrats. that is the reality of it. the media created this trump phenomenon then they don't hold him accountable. i'm sure the media planned to do so if he's the nominee and general election suddenly you'll hear about donald trump's tax returns. when is the last time you talked about his tax returns? we ought to have a debate. there are real differences. donald won't debate and the media wont hold him accountable -- >> can you ask the answer the question whether are you going to support donald trump if he's the nominee? >> i am going to beat donald trump we're headeded to a contested convention and we're going to win. i'll not willing to concede this
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country. it's my kid's future not simply a game -- >> nobody is saying it's a game, sir. >> if we lose this, we lose our counted and lose the supreme court for a generation and religious liberty is taken away and second amendment is taken away. our kids are bankrupted. we're at the edge of a cliff and i'll tell you the people of indiana really are in a position, the country is depending on them to pull us back from this cliff. >> don't you think it's important to take a stand? you said it's a time for choosing. if it's a time for choosing, say it. for him or against him as the nominee. it's a time for choosing, is it not? >> you're welcome to lobby for support for trump as much as possible. we're going to beat trump because trump is winning the nomination, loses the country -- i'm not willing to give up on america. i'm not willing to give up on america. >> if you care this much about it, don't you think you saying i don't support him if he's the nominee send a sense of urgency
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to the republican party? >> what i'm saying is very, very simple. if you believe in free market principles and want to reduce the taxes and regulations on small businesses, if you want to bring jobs back to america, the amazinghing about the three card game played by donald trump. if he's laughing his supporters and mocking his supportsers because he's lying to them. he tries to pretend he's a supporter of the working men and women. only one with a million dollar court judgment against him for hiring illegal aliens and right now hiring hundreds of foreign workers instead of american and on trade he pretends to support american fair trade, donald trump, the ties he sells and shirts he sells and suits he sells are manufactured in mexico and china. i doesn't intend to change it. we need a positive optimistic campaign that stands with the
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working men and women of this country. that's what you're campaign is about. >> let the record show you have not taken a position on whether you can support trump if he's the nominee, fair enough? >> let the record show you tried very, very hard to get me to commit to supporting trump, the record will show that. >> fair enough. i've got to let you go. you have a lot to do in the state of indiana. stay safe on trail, sir. >> thank you, chuck, god bless. >> that interview was conducted on friday and panelists here, thomas friedman and kristen welker covering the hillary clinton campaign and historian doris kearns goodwin and author of the new book "love that boy", what two presidents and eight road trips and my son taught me about a parent's expectations. by the way, on the best seller list this morning. >> hey! >> so best sellers, the most recent best seller of our group. how many pulitzers?
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>> there's a lot there, not on this side of the table. ted cruz. >> you know, boehner might have said he's lucifer but you gave him hell. what you did, we can't in journalism make politicians give an honest answer but we can expose the fact when they don't. if you care about america and think donald trump is bad for america, would you support him as a nominee? and nine times, i caught it nine times he refused to answer the question which tells you something about a leader or lack of leader. >> i understand the dilemma republicans have and you seeing and there's a constituency for trump they don't want to ail kbrenate and at the same time he's alienating a swing vote. >> one thing that struck me cruz said and i think he's right. you're closer to this than i am. when it's a two person race, trump is going to get a lot more
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attention, his tax return, i didn't releez them because i'm being audited, that's nonsense. some of these i think he'll get called on. the thing that strike mez, the tension between us doing our jobs and focusing and the fact that so many of his supporters seem to be listening through their stomach and not their ears. he's made a gut connection. that map you put up, so striking, he won greenwich, connecticut, is that about income gap? he's made some gut connection with his followers that i don't think we'll fully -- >> what strikes me about mr. cruz, i don't think there's been in history somebody who's a politician who has colleagues saying the things he says about them, not just lucifer, i would rather take cyanide than vote for him and in the 19th century, if you said things like that on
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the floor of the house of the senate, you would be censured. one guy said a false assumption, and censured and canes hit over the head -- >> i was going to say. >> i've never seen a politician who don't want love. that's the hole in the heart they need it. he misses that gene. >> when you talk with former colleagues in the senate they never trusted him in part it had to do with government shutdown. one of the thanings that strucke about the interview, he has some of the most effective attacks against donald trump and linked him to hillary clinton. where were those six months ago? this is coming very late and some ways this is his last stand, he had the carly fiorina pick and alliance with john kasich. the sense is it's too little too late. >> what does wednesday look
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like? >> the race is over and two prumtdive nominees and america says maybe i don't vote in november. >> even if it's not november and he eeks out a win, republicans say they don't have the appetite for a contested convention. that desire they had several weeks ago, several months ago is slowly going away as donald trump gains ground on the delegates. >> we'll talk about that later in the show. coming up, i'll be speaking with the cia chief, john brennan on the biggest threat facing the u.s. today and whether the campaign rhetoric is spooking am of america's -- >> fun highlights from the white house correspondents dinner last night. >> if this material works well, i'm going to use it at goldman sachs nex sachs nex earn me
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election map could look like. this is under the best of circumstances for trump. are there any states trump could put in play that have been voting democratic in recent years? first, let's look at how many electoral votes each side can expect to start out with. the blue states are states democrats have won in the last four elections. they count for 242 electoral votes. all the red states are the ones the republicans have won inperi. now let's add the states the parties have won in three of the last four elections. blue and white for democrats, red and white for republicans. north carolina and indiana would be ones we would put to the republicans for now. so, that brings our electoral vote total to 257 to 206, meaning clinton would need to find 13 more electoral votes to reach 270, while trump would need 64. so, let's see if trump could do
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it. right now, our purple states are the ones here that have gone 2-2 in the last four elections. they are florida, virginia, ohio, colorado, nevada. if trump is going to get to 270, look at this issue he's got. even if he wins the big three of ohio, virginia, and florida, he gets 60. four short of the 64 he needs. can he get it in nevada, in colorado? well, those are high hispanic population states. it's unlikely. here's where trump says he's going to go. maybe it's michigan, maybe it's pennsylvania. he thinks new york, even in new jersey. the point is he's going to try to win states that haven't gone red in a generation. that is the uphill map we're showing you right now that donald trump faces. we'll have much more on 2016 later in the broadcast. when we which back, my exclusive sit-down with the head of the ciae, john brennan. five years to which allergy? eees. bees? eese. trees? eese. xerox helps hospitals use electronic health records
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it's five years to the day since the world was stunned by the news that the most wanted man in the world, osama bin laden, had been killed in a special forces raid in pakistan. and though his death was regarded by many as a watershed moment in the fight against terror, the last five years have brought new threats that very few would have predicted at the time, in particular, the rise of isis in iraq, syria, and libya. an horrific attacks in paris, brussels, and san bernardino, california, bring it home.
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john brennan was in the raid in capacity as the president's chief of homeland security adviser. he's now director of the cia. welcome to "meet the press." >> good to be here. >> five years ago, i remember going to the white house and hearing cheers. hearing people gather in the streets. of washington, and it was happening in other cities and there was a sense of relief. like this moment of, wow, is this the end? have we won whatever this was we were fighting, this war with al qaeda? have we won? it doesn't feel like that five years later. >> i remember the same evening when i left the white house at about midnight, it was bright as day, and the chants of usa and cia, cia. it was the culmination of a lot of hard work by some very good people, cia and other agencies. we have destroyed a large part of al qaeda. it's not completely eliminated so we have to stay focused on what it can do. now, with the new phenomenon of isil, this is going to challenge us for years to come. >> isil leader is a gentleman by
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the name of al baghdadi. if we announced today, if you and the president, you know, announced tonight he was dead, would there be that same sense of, this is the destruction of isis? there was a feeling of bin laden, al qaeda, yeah, that's a symbolic move. al qaeda is going to go into history. same thing with al baghdadi. is he that important? >> he is important, and we will destroy isil, i have no doubt in my mind. we have to remove the leadership that directs the organization to carry out these horrific attacks. bin laden had very important symbolic as well as strategic significance for al qaeda. and it was important after 9/11 that we remove the person responsible for that. if we got baghdadi, i think it would have great impact on the organization. and it will be felt by them. but this is a large, not just organization, it's a phenomenon. we see it not just in syria in iraq, we see it in libya, nigeria, and other countries. we're going to have remain very
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focused on destroying all elements of the organization. >> is isis more appealing to jihadis in some ways than al qaeda was? >> it has set up a so-called caliphate. it has put its roots down in territory. they have been able to attract a number of individuals from outside that syria and iraq area, over tens of thousands of individuals who have traveled to join this so-called caliphate. i think it has had a res nnls that appealed to the hearts and souls and minds of individuals who have been misled by their narrative of it being a religious banner. >> it was the failure to see isis, the rise of isis, as quickly, was it an intelligence failure. the remember the president referred to them one time at the jv. team. that's a remark he seems to regret and he says was taken out of context. was that because the intelligence was downplaying isis. >> isis comes from al qaeda in iraq, which has been around for
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the last 10, 15 years. what we need to do is understand that isil took advantage of a lot of opportunities inside iraq and syria. >> are they opportunities we gave them? >> they're opportunities that presented themselves inside both of those countries. when we see president bashar al assad was carrying out horrific attacks against his citizens as part of this arab spring and using chemical weapons, this is something that extremists and terrorists seized upon. isis was able to use those instances, whether it be in syria in iraq and abuses and corruption on part of the governments to appeal to a broad swath of people. so it gained strength very quickly. quicker than we thought. >> is it -- i guess when we look at this, i wonder this. let's say we get al baghdadi and destroy isis the same way we got bin laden and destroy al qaeda. does something else rise in its place? that's what the public thinks. there's no getting rid of these terrorists.
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when you get rid of one organization, another one is going to sprout up. >> a lot of these organizations have sprouted up for a variety of reasons. one is there is evil that is manifesting in the leadership of these groups. so they want to just destroy and kill and maim just for the sake of doing it. also, there's a lot of problems in many parts of the world that the terrorists have taken advantage of. corruption, the lack of good governance, the lack of economic opportunity, the lack of government over different parts of the country where terrorists have been able to go and burrow in and have training camps and be able to launch attacks outside. so although the counterterrorism community has a very important obligation to prevent these attacks, we need to give the dements and government officials here in this country and other countries the time and space they need to address these underlying factors and conditions that facility and contribute to the growth of the organizations. >> so what should be the u.s. role in this? we're having a big debate, more
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involved, less involved? i think the president has tried both, you could argue. he made a decision not to militarily get involved in syria at a time when he decided not to follow through on the red line. then he made a decision to get involved in libya. he regrets libya, doesn't regret syria. what does this say about what the u.s. role has to be in creating stability in the middle east? >> i think what it says is that the middle east is going through a very difficult and complex period of its history. there are a number of trends that are under way, economic, political, cultural, sectarian, and a lot of these very repre repressed sentiments and tensions are now manifesting themselves. authoritarian regimes have been in place in a number of these countries, you mentioned libya and syria and iraq. now, a lot of the problems that were never addressed in these regimes are coming to the fore. terrorist groups and extremist groups are again seizing upon it. we need to look at what are those issues we need to address
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and help them. but inunited states has only limited influence to shape the middle east. a lot of individuals think the united states can wave a magic wand and we can't. >> let me ask you just about libya, if we had not gotten involved in libya, if gadhafi were still there, would europe have this migration crisis? i know you dont like to do hypotheticals, but it does feel that way. libya's instability, syria's instability has created european instability. >> before the coalition came in and took action against the libyan regime, there was already under way instability and a growing insurrection against the gadhafi regime. that was going to play itself out. we don't know what would be the case if gadhafi were able to suppress it. i find it hard to believe gadhafi would have been able to stay in power. what we're seeing now is the lack of studenopportunities wit these countries for individuals to participate in a modern day economy, to participate in government.
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there's a lot of work that these governments have to do. united states is helping, and we're trying to help, but a lot is going to fall on these governments themselves, the people as well as just the region as a whole. >> let me ask you about saudi arabia. this was part of your portfolio many times in sarious times you have been in government. you were just there with the president as director of the cia, not just before, you were there a lot as chief adviser to the president for homeland security. what is the state of our relationship? how fractured is it? >> we have a very strong relationship with saudi arabia, and it's on the economic front, the political front, military security and intelligence. across the board. i have very close relations with my saudi counterparts. >> you do, does the president anymore? >> the president had very good meetings. he had more than two hours meeting with the king and senior most officials of the saudi government. there are differences of view about how some of the regional issues should be addressed. that's very healthy.
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the president said it was a very candid discussion that was necessary among friends. >> last week, i had former senator bob graham on the show. he's been smbl who has been trying to publicly get more attention to the idea of releasing these 28 pages of a congressional inquiry about 9/11 that have to do with saudi arabia. and potential role saudi arabia has. why not release those? what's the case against releasing those? >> those so-called 28 pages of one chapter of this injury put out in december of 2002, was addressing some of the prelim their 90ing findings and inform put together by the joint congress, and this chapter was kept out because of concerns about source of methods, investigative methods. and the investigate was still under way. i'm puzzled because what the joint inquiry did was tee up issues that were followed up by the 9/11 commission, as well as the review commission.
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these were thoroughly investigated and reviewed. it was a preliminary review that put information in there that was not corroborated and not deemed to be accurate. >> are the information in the 28 pages inaccurate information? everything is false? >> there's a combination of things that is accurate and inaccurate. i think the 9/11 commission took that joint inquiry and those 28 pages or so and followed through on the investigation. and they came out with a very clear judgment that there was no evidence that indicated the saudi government as an institution or saudi officials individually had provided financial support to al qaeda. >> are you concerned the release of the pages will unfairly put the relationship in a damaged position? >> i think some people may seize upon that uncorroborated, unvetted information in there that was basically just a collation of this information that came out of fbi files, and to point to saudi involvement, which i think would be very, very inaccurate.
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>> two more quick questions. one has to do with europe. a lot of people travel to europe, just like they do, college students. how safe will americans be in places like germany this summer? >> we know isis is trying to carry out attacks in europe and other parts of the globe. also, we're working very closely with our european partners and the security intelligence officials are working around the clock to uncover these terrorist plans. they have been successful in stopping a number of attacks in europe. >> a lot of plans? >> things that are under way that we are working with them very closely, sharing information to stop these attacks. >> is it what keeps you up? >> it's what keeps me going, it's what makes me so happy i'm at cia, the best job in the world, working with dedicated american men and women trying to protect their fellow americans. >> would you consider staying on no matter who the next president is? >> it's up to the president, my wife, and myself to decide whether or not i'm going to
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stay. this is the best job in the world, literally. >> donald trump, has any of the things he has said about muslims in particular, has that made your job harder? >> i focus on the mission at hand, and i have a lot of things -- >> american politics does not influence the mission at hand? >> i'm not distracted by it. i'm focused on the mission, focused on working with my international partners, with my colleagues in the states. the campaign is going to go on. one of the great things about the cia is we stay focused like a laser on what we need to do to keep the country safe. >> after the break, we're going to untangle a little bit of donald trump's big foreign policy speech this week. what exactly does he mean when he says u.s. foreign policy should be unpredictable, and oh, by the way, dependable, all at
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ welcome back, donald trump laid out what he called an america first foreign policy speech and read from a teleprompter, something he rarely does and designed to make washington approve. though trump promised a new era of consistency and reliability in foreign policy, the speech seemed to offer anything but that. in fact, there were a lot more contradictions. take a look. >> a new foreign policy direction for our country. one that replaces randomness with purpose. we must as a nation be more unpredictable, we're totally
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predictable. it all began with a dangerous idea that we could make western democracies out of countries that had no experience or interest in becoming a western democracy. i will work with our allies to re invigorainvigorate western v and -- the countries we're defending must pay for the cost of this defense. if not, the u.s. must be prepared to let these countries defend themselves. your friends need to know that you will stick by the agreements that you have with them. >> after the break, how come two of the most unpopular candidates in american history on the verge of becoming the democratic and republican nom needs and later washington celebrates the one thing it loves more than anything else, itself. the best moments from the white house correspondents dinner.
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panel is here. i want to start with what we just heard from john brennan, and then i want to get to donald trump's foreign policy. tom friedman, this is your beat, not mine. >> thank god. >> what did you hear from him that gave you concern or confidence? >> well, i think he's a serious guy. i think we're dealing with an extraordinary moment to be conducting foreign policy right now. this is a waylon jennings moment. mama, don't let your daughters grow up to be secretaries of state. this is the worst time ever, more challenging time ever to conduct foreign policy. >> why? >> look at the challenges. an enemy we have never quite faced before. nihilistic terrorists who have no plan, don't actually even leave their name. they want nothing more than us to fail. number one. second, we have the return of great power politics. traditional russia/china.
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third, we live in a world where globalization flows now are the most important thing to plug your country into, whether it's the facebook flee or the economic flow or technology flow, and we live in a country where the biggest challenge of the president is not strong stase, it's states falling apart in our hands and managing weakness is incredibly difficult. >> the most interesting scary thing is him calling isis a phenomenon. it's really smart but really scary. think of the phenomenon as you know it in pop culture. it's hard to define it, awfully hard to get to the root cause, and awfully hard to stop one. the closer he got to saying the root cause is people who feel they don't have a stake in their politics or economy. how in the world can we help with that in the middle east? >> the way they're a phenomena we have seen before. sunnis and shiites in iraq simply can't live together. that's why we keep winning the world. iraq invasion, we win the war, lose the peace. a surge, we win the war, lose
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the peace. now again, we're going to win the war. the most difficult for us with isis is going to be if we defeat them, because then you're going to see the mother of all civil wars between sunnis and sunnis, shiites and shiites, for who controls the area. >> even as i listen to how complicated it is, how is the public going to know how to support us? this is like three dimensional chess and most of us are playing checkers in understanding foreign policy. the leader, if he's going to get us into something more, or she, will have to communicate it in ways -- i can barely understand it when i listen to you, and you know it. it's a complicated problem. >> one of the things that's fueling the phenomenon, and that makes it such a global threat is they have such a robust online recruitment operation going, and the obama administration has put so much time and effort trying to counter that, but they haven't been successful. that speaks to your threat about potential threats in the west. >> let's talk about the emerging issue which is there is fear,
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certainly fear of terrorism. he brought up all those european plots that they have broken up, which means there may be one that they don't break up. what happens, the impact of that? it's something i know is scaring some intelligence officials. >> let's not just talk about europe. let's tick up on what doris was saying. when we live in a time where the public has lost utter faith in the leaders, thepri presidency itself, what happens when we get here again in this time of polarization in politics and loss of faith with it. can we rally behind our president, fight whatever the attack is like we did on 9/11? i have my doubts. i worry about it. >> what did you make of trump's foreign policy speech? >> it was everything the critics said. a mad libs version of all his ideas put into different sentences. as you exposed, oddly contradictory. but at the same time, you have to say a contradictory in foreign policy, is that like supporting saudi arabia even though we know they're behind
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9/11? is that like supporting pakistan even though we know they're the taliban. is it saying libya is wonderful and then say it's the president's decision. to find consistency in foreign policy is difficult right now. what is the most unnerving about trump's speech and the essential thing you need to do successful foreign alacy is you have to have a take on the world. what do you think of the big forces? i don't expect anyone to have a perfect answer. if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. trump has done zero homework. >> whether he knew what it meant in history, and there were some well meaning people in america when it was first created. sergeant shriver was in it, jerry stewart was in it, mainly because they had seen the horror of world war i, and then the got an anti-semitic tinge to it, but more importantly, they were wrong. america has to be involved in europe's wars to save western
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civilization. and they're wrong again in thinking our global economy can allow us to pull away and be america firsters. >> ron, here's the problem. americans want us to solve all the problems and stay out of the way. >> yeah. >> right, that's the charge of american foreign policy. >> i think about what other format do we have or other part of life do we have a consistent format with a built-in inconsistency? reality tv. this is what donald trump does. at the end of the show, somebody who he has been saying you're great, he says, you're fired. >> i think there was a lack of details. he has been criticized for that, which is fine for the primary audience, but i think it gets a lot more complicated in a general eletction when you're reaching out to independents you have to win over. to your point, doris, about america first, if you talk to establishment republicans. that's what terrifies them about a trump nomination. he had this moment where he was very presidential in some ways
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but he seemed to not understand the full meaning. >> one thing obama has done right and a favor to hillary clinton on this thing, in response to these acts of terrorism, it has to be like israel. you blew up that bus. in three hours, the sidewalk is cleaned up and no one knows it happens. if we set it up the way we're setting it up, if there's an act of terrorism in late october, early november, it's down to donald trump's favor in ways thereat are highly unpredictable. i saw that play in israel. >> you think we're a terrorist attack away from president trump? >> could be. >> how about we go to break on that? we'll be back in 45 seconds with our end game segment and a lighter touch. highlights from what was a very humorous night at the white house correspondents' dinner. coming up, "meet the press" end game, brought to you by boeing, building the future one century at a time.
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make sure you're keeping up with your kids' online accounts and the social media they're using. talk with them about appropriate online behavior. being proactive and involved is the best way to protect your kids from predators and bullies. the more you know. end game time. the panel is here. you might have noticed fournier is a little worse for wear.
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he went from the dinner, afterparty, ihop, to right here at the table after the big night. you look great. >> thank you very much. >> well done. >> i got the egg special. >> you did. it was a doozy. it was president obama's final white house correspondents' dinner. we have a fun little clip reel. here it is. >> i have hurt, though, bernie, that you have been distancing yourself a little from me. i mean, that's just not something that you do to your comrade. let's look at the confusion over the invitations to tonight's dinner. guests were asked to check where they wanted steak or fish. but instead, a whole bunch of you wrote in paul ryan. >> yesterday, i had a beer at 11:30 in the morning. you know, mcdonald's now serves breakfast all day long. >> there's one area where donald's experience could be invaluable. that's closing guantanamo.
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because trump knows a thing or two about running waterfront properties into the ground. >> look here. look here. yeah. want one? >> if this material works well, i'm going to use it at goldman sachs next year. earn me some serious tubmans. obama out. >> and as usual, the comedian gets to come on after the president is stuck coming on after the president. for larry wilmore. how about that, doris? >> the funniest thing was the whole theme of it was the wistfulness and the idea he's going away and what's he going to do with an ordinary life. there's one part where he needs a driver's license and a birth certificate. it's true. they go into public life and all
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of a sudden they're not commander in chief anymore. eisenhower evidently hadn't made a phone call in so long, he picked up the phone and said what's this buzz? there's been a dial tone, mr. president. so i thought the whole theme of it was really terrific. >> you know, ron and tom, i thought of both of you this morning when i saw boehner and obama laughing it up. i'm thinking, that's great. i'm thinking, wait a minute, where was that when america needed it? >> it's really true, chuck. i think that everyone is trying to figure out the trump thing. what's behind this? you know. and i wouldn't pretend to know, and it's obviously a mix of things, but one of the things deeply behind it is the mood in the country for the last eight, ten years has been we're the children of permanently divorcing parents. it's like we're in a house with -- and even a clip like that says what if these guys actually had worked together like that? >> i don't know if i had had anybody put it better than that.
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that's an interesting way. because it's like, oh, my god, mom and dad. you had this moment. where was this? >> when we were teenagers and you were fighting. >> where does trump fit in? is he the crazy uncle? >> he's perfected his comedic timing which is so enjoyable about watching the final speech he gave, but that moment of him sitting there with boehner, as a reporter, you imagine what would it have been like? >> you wonder, what if they golfed all the time, what if they did share a smoke when the president was smoking? >> start drinking at 10:00 in the morning. >> a fly on the wall for the video. >> just the taping. >> that kind of comment gets mocked by the partisans on both sides. >> we're going to get mocked. >> that's what leaders do. you set an example and you set a tone. the idea of two leaders showing you can be friendly rivals, that's a good model for the rest of the country. >> at the beginning of the
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relationship in december of 2010. >> exactly. >> and again and again and again. >> i also thought he was sparing in his comments of trump. i was expecting to hear more. i think he was trying to make a statement that trump doesn't deserve as much attention as he gets. >> interesting way of putting it. >> all right. well, you recovered all very well from your all-night partyings. that's all we have for today. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday and mother's day, it will be "meet the press."
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